Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:48:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Wilhelm Pabst connection

Hello David,

thank you very much for visiting the genealogy page of my wife Ursula. I was delighted to find someone who is really related with her and she too. I wondered how you are so well informed about the region. You knew that Camberg is now called Bad Camberg and a lot of other details.

First of all let me thank you for the correction you gave to the family tree.Your Anna Margaretha Rath from Erbach in your family tree is indeed more probable then my Anna Margaretha Rath from Schwickershausen, aged only 16,
when her son should be born. I think I overlooked this entry in the church book. You have also found more ancestors than I until now. I wanted to continue next time with that branch of the tree.

But I think I can give you also some more information, bacause I have some sources, which are not included in the church books. The most important sources besides the church books are the censuses of 1643 and 1665 in the Amt (that is comparable to county) Camberg and the Beede (tax) lists of Camberg 1700 - 1740, which have been evaluated by the genealogist Hans Schmitt for
Camberg and its surrounding villages. The Beede lists are therefore very interesting for the genealogist, because there is an entry in the list when the tax goes over to another man. In most cases that means, that the land of
someone who has died is inherited to his children or his children-in-law. So it becomes possible to investigate the birth name of the wife in many cases with a high probability. So let's see what can be found for the persons in the family tree you gave me:

Your numbers 24 and 48 Johann Bapst jun and sen.: no entries in the Beede list, that means that had no land property and so that did not pay any tax. There are no Bapst in the censuses of 1643 and 1665.

Number 26: He seems too young to appear in the tax lists. There are many other Rath`s in the list. There are also Rath's in the 1665 and 1643 censuses.

Number 54: Jakob Kob from Erbach: He appears in the beede list. I quote from this list in German:

Kob Jacob
1701 von Hans Philips Kurbitz

That means he got a piece of land from Hans Philipp Kurbitz, which had a tax value of 4 Schilling.

So it becomes very likely that Jacob Kob's father-in-law was Hans Philipp Kurbitz and that would mean that his wife's birth name was Katharina Kurbitz.

Looking at the name Kurbitz in the tax list it becomes even more probable:

Kurbitz Hans Philipps Wittib (Wittib is the old German name for 'Witwe' (widow).
1701 an Peter Schreiner
an Peter Peifer
an Jacob Kob
an Johann Kern

So the land was shared at one time to four persons, most likely sons-in-law of Hans Phlipp Kurbitz's widow.

Then I took the census of 1665 of the town of Camberg and looked for the Kurbitz family. And indeed I found an entry for the Kurbitz family under Erbach.

Kurbitz, Hans Philips and Anna Margreth haben Kind haben Kind Johannes 6, Anna 13, Ursula 8, Anna Margaretha 3 iahr und Catharina 3 Wochen alt.

That means that Katharina Kurbitz was born in 1665. In 1643 there has not yet been a Kurbitz family in Erbach.

Your number 50 Cristian Wenz from Camberg. I found for him in the Beede list:

Wentz Christian
1708 vom Vater Hans Philips Wentz
1708 - 1709
1719 vom Schwager Wilhelm Kremer
1711 - 1712
1713 von Johannes Lindenschmidt
1713 - 1715
1716 vom Schwieger Jacob Kremer
1722 an Johannes Kremer
fuer die Wiese aus der Herrenau
1722 - 1731
1732 an Schulzheiss Birckenbuehl
an Servatz Bourrett
an Herrn Hansen
1732 - 1733 (Rechenfehler -
1734 -1740 im Register jetzt der Betrag

You see that without any doubt Hans Philips Wentz was his father and Jacob Kremer was his father-in-law. So his wife's birthname was Kremer.

In the census of 1665 the following can be found:

Wentz, Hanss Philips und Catharina haben ein Kind namens Johannes alt 1/2 iahr.

So Christian is born after 1665. There is also a Wentz entry under Erbach at this time. The 1643 census shows that the Wentz's came from Erbach, because there is only an entry under that village

Wenz, Friz (this must be the father of Hanss Philips). This census only lists the men without their women and children.

There is not yet a Kremer in the whole Amt in 1665 as well as in 1643.

I think that is also some new information for you. Thank you very much again for your reply.

Best regards from Germany


Kurt Enders
Im Hoehsand 9r
D-64404 Bickenbach